Questionable "Draws"

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cronster
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Questionable "Draws"

Post by cronster »

Some of the drawings are disturbing. Some look like they are of kids. Please, please, please remove these drawings!!!

I really like this site, but I will have to stop coming here if there is any remote possibility that something posted could be "child related". I understand that these are drawings, but these ideas should not even be entertained.

Does anyone else feel the same way?


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nyllover
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Post by nyllover »

As you say, they are just draws. Therefore you agree with me that there is nothing illegal there (a part from, maybe, the copyright of them...as many other things on this site of course).
But if you want us to understand what you mean, and to start a discussion about this (we are in a democracy here, so we can decide together) please post here a list of those images, so that we can see what you mean.
When you look at a picture, you have a drop down list on the top, that says the name of the picture and the number. Write here at least the number, so we can immediatly find the pictures you mean..... sorry but i can't read your mind and know to what pictures you refer to exactly if you are not more specific. :wink:
Thanks :)


P.S. in my opinion, it would be a little bit too much to don't come to this site anymore only for a couple of draws...but anyway...help me to help you :)
cronster
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List of draws

Post by cronster »

The main reason why this concerns me is that I do not want to be connected with anything that could be considered kiddie porn. I do not want to go to jail for something that I don't want to look at.

Here's a list of questionable ones.
117
118
119
Footsiefreak
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Re: List of draws

Post by Footsiefreak »

cronster wrote:The main reason why this concerns me is that I do not want to be connected with anything that could be considered kiddie porn. I do not want to go to jail for something that I don't want to look at.

Here's a list of questionable ones.
117
118
119
Arent you being very paranoid?You dont go to jail for looking at kiddie porn.Unless the person is an alledged child molester and the evidence of kiddie porn could be used against that person.My opinion is if its something you dont like just dont go to that section.Nylover would NEVER put kiddie porn on this site anyway hes a good guy!
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nyllover
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Post by nyllover »

cronster wrote:The main reason why this concerns me is that I do not want to be connected with anything that could be considered kiddie porn.
I strongly believe that a draw can NEVER be considered illegal, no matter what is it about. Because it's a draw, and if we are in a democratic world, art has to be free.

Having said that, i am "scared" of how seriously you are taking this draws, therefore i'm going to remove those pictures immediatly just because i don't want you to run around the internet screaming "nyllover has to be persecuted" or anything like that.
I hope you are satisfied, and please, let me know of anything else you want me to remove from this site. :|
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Post by ILF »

Hmmmm.

I'll be as objective as I can.

There are a number of comic draws which I understand what Cronster's concerns are. I must admit, I don't like images where anything that looks like children involved in any sort of "activity."
Some of the images look like the female characters are even crying/or sad which one could interpret as performing against her will.
Quite frankly, it makes me wonder about the state of mind of someone who would draw images like that in the first place i.e. what looks like could be images of underage females involved. The other images where, clearly there are prtrayed adults, I'm just fine with that. I think we all are.

Having said that; These are drawings and not photos of actual foot acts.
So the question becomes ( especially where there are laws about these sorts of things i.e. U.S., Canada, etc.)

How are/would these images be defined with respect to Law?

Are they illegal looking? Or are they art? Who would decide that? Has that already been decided?

It means that some homework needs to be done just to be sure.
The simple solution may be for now...to remove those questionable images.
Maybe Cronster is a little worried over nothing...or maybe the concerns are quite valid. My guess is that cronster lives in the U.S. where monitoring does take place and where people do get into big trouble for illegal type activities of the porn-related nature.

Considering how many members are probably from the U.S., it's not a bad idea to be certain.

In the meantime, I will continue to not view the images if based on the thumbnail, it looks questionable.

P.S. Nyl, you live in Italy, is that correct? If so, is there a clear definition of this possible fine-lined issue?
I would think that Italy has similarly strict guidelines on this sort of thing.

Thanks for taking the time read everyone. It is a valid topic to discuss and explore so no one gets into any trouble.
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Post by Feeture Feature »

Nyllover, I have not looked at any of the images so I can't comment on them specifically, but you are wrong about not possibly coming under investigation for child porn because actual real-life acts are not depicted. I recently read about a case here in the US where a man was arrested for possessing child porn because he wrote stories involving children. No pictures at all, just stories and he didn't even distribute them. I'm not sure how it turned out. And if your site comes under investigation, we all could be listed as visiting child porn sites and come under suspicion. You have no idea how strong the movement here is to condemn people. It's like when all the daycare staff were being accused of being child molesters because the children were being encouraged to make up stuff by investigators and told the investigators what they wanted to hear.

This is why the Mouse Pad people won't even allow the mention by name of any actress under age 18 who might have a foot related scene or any description of such a scene. Silly when the scene is available publicly on TV or in a movie, and they are afraid to have it mentioned. But that is what the world has come to, or at least the US, where some investigators do nothing but prowl the Internet looking for targets.
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Post by Dead Parrot »

This appears to be a good place to begin research, the excellent Wikipedia site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography

A cursory reading of the article shows that such images are not prohibited under U.S. law.

I believe you were correct in removing said images though. As Feeture makes plain, the morality police are out there to impose their will upon us.

DP
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Post by nyllover »

OK...then, let's work together in this. Please, help me in identify all the draws i should remove from there, so then i can do the same i did with the ones cronster told me about. I don't want to cause troubles to anyone, although i still believe in what i said (and DP confirms what i said). :)

By the way, yes, here in Italy is exactly the same as in the US, if not even more strong... it seems that everytime they speak on TV about the internet, they associated it to child porn here... :x
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Post by Dead Parrot »

Ok, I've cast a very wide net here. It's difficult since anime figures are so stylized. In many cases it's impossible to determine anything remotely resembling age, or even if the subjects are human (pixies/sprites/elves).

Page 5 - #38
Page 6 - #42, 43 and 45
Page 10 - #74, 76 and 77
Page 12 - #92 and 93
Page 13 - #101
Page 15 - #113 and 116
Page 16 - #126
Page 17 - #131, 133 and 134
Page 18 - #143
Page 19 - #147
Page 21 - #161 and 167
Page 22 - #174

Let me know if you want specifics but if you are looking for other material to delete this is what I would point you towards.
nyllover wrote: it seems that everytime they speak on TV about the internet, they associated it to child porn here... :x
Nyllover, you can delete this part of the post if you like. I do not want to start a political discussion but I cannot resist addressing this because I have such strong beliefs on the subject of censorship.

Associating the internet with child porn is a deliberate tactic on the part of government. Government hates the internet because they cannot control the flow of ideas, information and the virtual gathering of large groups of people in a common cause. By disparging the net in this way they hope to dissuade users and to bolster their case as they try to pass laws to tax and censor the net.

They want to crush political dissent and control the content of news, and child porn gives them an excuse to regulate the net.

DP
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Post by nyllover »

Dead Parrot wrote: They want to crush political dissent and control the content of news, and child porn gives them an excuse to regulate the net.
I agree completely DP, and i'm not going to delete this part of your message. As for those pictures...will be a hard job, but i'll do it. :)
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Post by ILF »

I agree with DP on the choices to remove.

There may be a few more worth considering removing.
Fortunately, the majority will remain. :mrgreen:
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Post by nyllover »

I may be wrong, but i think that if i remove these pictures, then i may as well remove all the Anime pictures i have there.
Anime pictures always look like the ones you posted...they may as well be just teenager of 18 years old...
What do you guys think?
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Post by Dead Parrot »

My comments:

Image 149 - Maybe but I don't think you could make the argument on the size of the guy alone. Those are some pretty well defined chest and abs. You could also say she's a giantess, or he's a midget/dwarf.

Image 122 - Possibly, go ahead and remove.

Image 103, 94 and 57 - I don't believe there's anything to worry about. Again, we're dealing with drawings. Anime and hentai are highly stylized. Certain features are exaggerated while others are subdued. It all depends on the individual artists technique. As such it is nearly impossible to determine an "age" of the subejct.

The uniforms don't bother me either given the extreme popularity of schoolgirl outfits in the whole adult genre. Just type in "japanese schoolgirl uniform" or "catholic schoolgirl uniform" in your browser and you'll get more hits than Gerry Cooney took from Larry Holmes.

It's ultimately up to you Nyllover whether the anime section stays open. I personally believe it should as I love to see the endless variety of work.

You could post a poll about closing the section, or perhaps have some of us preview new images before you post them to determine if there may be a problem.

DP
Please note that I am no longer an active board member.

If you need assistance please contact Nyllover.
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Post by nyllover »

I don't know DP, i really don't know. To be honest, i hate even to have to spend this time just to remove some draws, it is just not right in my opinion :( They are draws, after all :(

Anyway, i'll remove number 122 and, if in the future i will have some other anime draws to put online, i'll think of what to do.

Thanks for your help anyway guys, i know all of you make this just to make this site "safer from problems" :)
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Just a thought.

Post by jocozo »

I dont know why all the fuss about the drawings is going on. Nobody (the planet's population) seemed to complain about the latest Lolita version (starring Jeremy Irons). I think everyone realised that Dominique Swain (who was 18 during the shooting of the movie) played a 14 YEAR OLD GIRL!!! So for the love of God let us be a bit more mature about a bunch of manga drawings. I doubt Cronster sued the studios or the author of Lolita and i am sure he enjoyed the footsie scene of the movie as we all did.

Have a nice day everyone.
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Re: Just a thought.

Post by nyllover »

jocozo wrote: I doubt Cronster sued the studios or the author of Lolita and i am sure he enjoyed the footsie scene of the movie as we all did.
I don't like at all this "attacking" attitude jocozo. It's not the way this forum is going on since it started. Cronster made this post because he was concerned about those draws. We don't have all the same opinion in the world.
Rispect to other people opinions is one of the first things to learn to be a part of a community. We can discuss, we can say we don't agree, fine. But there is NO NEED to make this a personal attack to Cronster.
I expect you to don't repeat the same mistake again.
Thank you :)
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Post by jocozo »

Nyllover,

It all depends on the tone and the attitude you have while reading the text. And while scrolling through the different posts regarding this particular issue, i see a immense amount of sad emoticons particularly in your posts. Are you sure it is not the hassle you went through to remove the pics that made you look at my comment in a hostile tone?

Like it has been stated, it is a democracy and i was simply stating an opinion which is not attacking anyone. In my personal opinion Cronster did not sue the studios and he enjoyed the scene in the movie. I could be wrong about both, maybe he did file suit and he did not like the scene. But like i said, it is my comment and opinion.

On the other hand, re-read the comment you have written in reply to my previous post and compare both, you might detect more hostility in your comment than in mine :o

Given there is no room for one to express a neutral impartial opinion in here, i will refrain from doing such again; i also apologize to anyone whose feelings or ego were affected/hurt/offended following my comment.

Thank you for reading me through.
Cheers!
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Post by nyllover »

Jocozo, if i sounded like i was "attacking" you is because i just wanted to be sure you understood my point. It's not easy to keep a forum as nice and clean from flames as this one. Although all people who post here are very nice, there have been in the past some occasions when i had to be firm and, maybe, rude to stop any sort of flames from even to start. I am not saying i like this thread, and i made very clear that i removed all those draws against my will (i put them there on the first place, so it's obvious i liked them).
Perhaps it's my not so perfect english, but i saw in your post a sort of "provocative" tone that i didn't like at all. And i wrote you to make this clear. If you took it as me attacking you...well, it was just my role of administrator of this board. I care A LOT of the "happy living" of this board, and everytime there is the chance of a flame, i surely write in that tone. Sorry but i have to. Nothing against you, just agains the provocative (in my opinion) post you made.

just it.
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